083: Does God Hate? Or, Making Sense of God's Emotions (with David Lamb)

Does God hate? Is God emotional? Emotions feel irrational, impulsive, and problematic for God, especially when we think about hate, jealousy, or sorrow. But the truth is the Bible is full of all sorts of stories that express God expressing emotions. This episode focuses particularly on God and the emotion of hate.

Our guest is Dr. David Lamb. He is the MacRae Professor of Old Testament and in 2017 the Dean of the Faculty at Missio Seminary. He is the author of "God Behaving Badly: Is the God of the Old Testament Angry, Sexist and Racist." And more recently has written "The Emotions of God: Making Sense of a God who hates, weeps, and loves." And Dr. Lamb spent twenty years on staff with InterVaristy. 

Check out the DMIN in Spiritual Formation and Relational Neuroscience here. 

Stay Connected:

• NEED spiritual direction or coaching that aligns with this podcast? Connect with Cyd Holsclaw here.
• Join the Embodied Faith community to stay connected and get posts, episodes, & resources.
• Support the podcast with a one-time or regular gift (to keep this ad-free without breaking the Holsclaw's bank).

Transcript

Is God emotional? Emotions feel irrational, impulsive, and problematic for God, especially when we think about hate, jealousy, or sorrow. But the truth is the Bible is full of all sorts of stories that express God expressing emotions. And today we're going to focus particularly on God and the emotion of hate. 

This is the Embodied Faith Podcast with Geoff and Cyd Holsclaw. exploring a neuroscience informed spiritual formation. And today we have Dr. David Lamb on with us. He is, let's bring them all in. Here we go. Uh, he is the McRae professor of Old Testament and is recently the Dean of Faculty at Mississippi. 

He's the author of God Behaving Badly, is the God of the Old Testament, Angry, Sexist, and Racist. And more recently, he wrote a book called The Emotions of God, Making Sense of the God Who Hates, Weeps, and Loves. And he has been on staff at InterVarsity for over 20 years. Thank you so much for being on with us today. 

It's my pleasure. I love talking about God and God's emotions, so I'm looking forward to it. Well, uh, how did you get into this topic? Like, what was it that got you into feeling like, Hey, I need to write a whole book on this. Yeah. So, um, I'm, I'm an emotional person and, um, in some of the spheres that I, I don't know, run around in, that's been okay. 

Maybe even good, but other places I've kind of hung out, it felt like, um, I didn't know what to do with my emotions. I mean, maybe. Yeah. You know, I don't want to be overly stereotypical, but I think, um, guys may have a little bit harder time than, than, than at least traditionally, maybe, um, and, um, and one of the things that struck me, it was kind of odd is that when it comes to the Bible. 

a lot of times places in the Bible where it talks about God emotionally, um, Bible scholars, pastors, theologians, um, you know, teachers of the Bible just kind of ignore it or downplay it or obviously feel uncomfortable with it. Um, and so I just kind of said, well, what's up with that? Um, and you know, whenever I notice people are ignoring a part, maybe even particularly the old Testament or the Bible generally. 

When it seems to be getting ignored, I tend to push into that because that's sort of, that piques my interest. Um, and so I'm an emotional person. I think God is, our God is an emotional God, but I just don't think people have done enough time, spent enough time thinking about that, um, and talking about that. 

So that's, um, that's something that, you know, piqued my interest. And I said, well, I, somebody needs to write a book about that. And so I decided to do that. Yeah, I'm super glad you did because I think a lot of people, it's, it's easier for us to resonate with Jesus having emotions, you know, like there's sort of a little bit of an entry point there, but you're an old Testament scholar. 

So you're, you're writing especially about the emotions of God that we see showing up in the old Testament, which are the tougher ones. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's a great point. There's a lot of things that you know, well, Jesus was Jesus was human. And so he could be kind of human and display emotions. 

Um, you know, and I understand that. Um, but, um, the interesting thing is that Jesus was fully God and fully man and Jesus in the New Testament and Yahweh in the Old Testament on some level that we will never fully be able to fathom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are one in the same, right? So their character has got to be the same. 

And, um, the, the, the, a lot of the things that I saw we see in the gospels and, um, or even in Paul's letters describing Jesus, we see in the pages of the old Testament, um, describing, you know, the, the, the term that God has called in the old Testament, the most is Yahweh. Um, but the God of the old Testament, uh, Yahweh in the old Testament and Jesus in the new Testament are both very emotional. 

Uh, let's talk about it. Well, what we, um, We for sure don't want to do. So I'm a systematic theologian. What we for sure don't want to do is assign emotions to the human side of, of Jesus and then a non emotional unemotional. Sometimes it's called like. You know, ap, apathetic or, you know, uh, side to God is like, well, you know, God is, is beyond emotions and then Jesus in our humanity brought the motions into it. 

So that's, that's a bad move, especially if you're a good reader of the Old Testament, like I know you are so, but. Before we talk about hate, um, can we just talk a little bit more, why, why do you think people have trouble assigning an emotional life to God? Like, what's the resistance that, you know, whether it's theological or personal or cultural? 

Yeah, and, um, there are, there are some theological traditions that, um, you know, and, you know, we could bring in the idea of impassibility. Um, that's actually not something I want to talk about because, When it comes to impassability, I'm not going to be a good advocate for it. Um, and I don't want to create a straw man. 

Um, you know, the folks that, um, but there are some theological traditions that have at the very least downplayed God's emotions or say that, yes, God is described as emotional, but he is not affected by humans or human emotions, et cetera. Okay, so that's, that's, I get it. Um, I just, the, the God I encounter in the pages of scripture is just so emotional. 

Um, I think, you know, we have all had bad experiences of emotions, um, in our own lives, you know, um, I know for a lot of guys, maybe, and I'm certainly, you know, it's not like women don't struggle with this too, but let's, you know, let's be stereotypical for just a sec. Um, we've all, you know, had experiences of. 

Angry men, angry fathers, angry coaches, angry teachers. I don't know what, um, and, um, and so when we see an angry God, um, that just kind of scares us, um, uh, or, you know, it just seems, um, I think there's just a lot of negative associations with emotions, emotions feel irrational. And we, we want, and I think some of this goes back to, again, theological presuppositions about how important rationality is. 

Um, but the reality is, I think emotions actually can be quite rational, but emotions feel irrational. They feel uncontrollable. They feel unpredictable. And there's a, there's a. A dark side to kind of almost all emotions. So I understand that. But, I mean, the reality is, God talks about, the Bible talks about God emotionally frequently. 

And, um, as I have thought more about God, um, and the emotional character of God in the Bible, um, it doesn't scare me away, but I find it quite compelling. Um, it's quite attractive to me. The reason God, the reasons God expresses hatred or jealousy or anger, some of these negative emotions, um, actually makes sense to me, um, as when we study the, the examples of God doing this, uh, and we look at them in context. 

So, um, Yeah, I, um, I understand why people are afraid of it. Theological tradition. Part of it are just our own experiences. Um, but personally, I believe all scriptures inspired and profitable for teaching. So that means I need and talk about the places where God gets emotional. Well, and I think, I mean, I'll just, so I'm actually, so I'm a coach and a spiritual director, so I do a lot of like sort of one on one conversations with people. 

And I think a lot of what happens, um, also when we think of emotions is that we do think positive, negative. There are good emotions that we, can experience and enjoy. And then there are the bad emotions that we're not supposed to experience or that we're not supposed to feel. And when we feel those, then there's a sense of like guilt or shame because I got angry or because I'm, because I'm, you know, sad or, um, and so some of the work that I do with people is just, well, what if, what if we just thought of emotions as energy or as information and just thought of like, what do I notice about feeling that? 

What does that emotion tell me? Um, about what, what's going on in me. Um, so that's also something that I'm thinking of as you're saying this, is that the things that we're uncomfortable with are sort of the negative emotions with God or what we perceive to be negative emotions. Have you also run into people struggling with the, what would be considered the more positive emotions of God? 

Um, yeah, that's a great comment. And I just I need to unpack a little bit of what you said. Thank you for saying that again. When I speak about negative emotions, I'm going to try to always put that in my air quotes. Um, and I, you know, to audio listeners, I'm doing air quotes when I say negative emotions. 

Um, because Um, people that know more about emotions, um, and, you know, counseling and therapy. Actually, my son, um, was a psych major. He helped me in this process. Um, other people, my spiritual director has helped me in this to just understand that, um, we need to be less labeling these emotions as kind of positive or negative. 

It's just, as you say, these are Um, things that are going on, um, and obviously kind of what we do with them. Um, how do we respond to them can be more helpful or less helpful. Certainly. Um, yeah, I mean, I, I think, um, you know, is there a negative side to the positive, the positive emotions? Um, and I think certainly, um, uh, you know, I, um, I think, you know, I don't know, I'll talk about compassion. 

I think sometimes, um, We We see this not often in scripture, but, you know, think of Jonah. God did not. Jonah did not want God to show compassion to the Ninevites. And so I think, you know, there are always going to be situations when People that we feel like deserve something bad don't get it, um, because, you know, someone in power, a judge, or maybe the God of the universe is deciding to delay judgment, um, you know, our hearts. 

Should be warmed to any time, um, God and his sovereign wisdom decides to show compassion. Um, unfortunately, my heart is not in sync with God, um, as it should be. And I think on some level I'm perhaps not unique in this regard. So that's just a possible example where, um, you know, things that should be perceived positively are not, um, Um, and you know, we could talk about the same thing with love. 

You know, love when love prevents us to do tough love or speaking truth. We think we're loving. Um, but when in reality, um, we are not. Not loving in a way that we should, or God would want us to. So those are a couple of things that come to mind. Yeah, no, that's great. Well, I want to shift to then this, this main topic of hate and God. 

Um, but just really quick, I just want to point out one last thing, uh, about how it's, why it's hard to get into the motions with God, uh, you mentioned in the book. And. Is that so often we read the didactic with the letters, the teachings, especially the New Testament and then the narratives in the Old Testament and you just throw out in your book, like if we read more of the Psalms and then the prophets, the poetry is where you get a lot of the emotion. 

And so you miss the emotion if you're born, you're reading parts of the Bible, but we think, you know, obviously we should be reading all the Bible. So let's get to this question of hate. What is hate? Yeah. It would be the first question, uh, as you kind of understand it. And then what does God hate would be, uh, the next question, just to throw you, throw everybody in the deep end there. 

Yeah. And, um, one of the things that I actually had a hard time at the beginning of each chapter, because, um, I wanted to just, you know, use a Webster's definition or some kind of a standard definition for each of these emotions. Um, and, um, as I was talking to my IVP editors, I realized that, you know, This is kind of a classic cliche that when you're an author, don't overdefine terms. 

Um, but, um, the thing I, I tried to, I actually kind of pushed back a little bit. I'm like, but these are terms that need to be defined. Um, absolutely. Um, you know, you know, there's a lot of different ways we can go. I mean, a lot of these emotions have both kind of a, uh, a noun sense and a verbal sense. Um, you know, hate. 

Hate, hatred, kind of as a noun, and then kind of to hate, obviously, as a verb, but disgust, revolt, revulsion, um, um, a strong negative feeling of, You know, revulsion. Um, I think, you know, there's a couple different ways that you could go with that. Um, uh, in in the first chapter, I talk about, um, um, blue checks wheel of emotions. 

And again, I don't know, I need to talk to, um, uh, Counselors or psychiatrists or spiritual directors that, you know, I'd love to hear kind of what what they think of this, um, but there's kind of a kind of a loathing, disgust, um, you know, boredom, disgust, loathing would be kind of, um, synonyms that kind of capture the essence of it. 

Um, so, but none of these things are, are. feelings or emotions that we want to associate with God. And yet, particularly in the Old Testament, we see God hating a lot. Um, and, um, so I think maybe the first thing just to say is, you know, what do we do with a God who hates? Um, and, um, the good news to early to say in this process kind of early is, um, God is described as loving far more than he has described as hating. 

Thank you. Right. Um, I'll put this to the side. He is described as being angry or wrathful quite a bit. I talk about that elsewhere. But so fortunately, God doesn't, the Bible doesn't associate hate with God very often. But, um, you know, and when, when people ask me about hate, I think the first thing I want to say is I hate talking about hate. 

I really hate it. I hate that I had to write a chapter on hate. Yeah. Um, uh, so. Um, and let's be slow to talk about hate. The Bible doesn't associate God with hate a lot. Um, and let's, we, we need to be careful about the things that we say about hate. But, um, but the, the Bible does. And so, you know, we can talk more about that. 

I don't know if you want to, um, have a specific question or I could just keep rambling. Oh, what does? Yeah. So I think that's a great caveat because what we don't want to. You know, just focus on which some groups in Christianity will like, well, what does God hate? What does God wrathful about? What does God judging? 

You know, let's front load this and then we'll sprinkle in a little love and forgiveness at the end. Um, and then We also get the opposite, which was, uh, you know, like, well, yeah, I don't know. Maybe God hates, but God's central characteristic is love. So let's just talk about that. Uh, and so neither one of those approaches does take the emotional life of God seriously. 

And so the question is, is, well, what can we learn about God, even in the small, narrow instances in which Uh, you know, it is said that God hates. So, so what does God hate? Primarily you, you have this, uh, this passage in, uh, um, Proverbs six, it actually talks about God hating different body parts, right? But it's a six things that the Lord hates and seven things that are detestable. 

Um, but can you go through a little bit like what is, it seemed to be that God hates? Yeah. And that's a great question. Let me, let me back up just again. Um, and I guess I would say, God is not hate. God is love. Yes. But there are times in God's loving character, which leads him to really, really dramatically oppose evil because evil things are being done to people. 

That he loves or his creation, which he loves. So yeah, I talk about um, these are a few of God's least favorite things Proverbs 6 with a just a Very veiled allusion to sound of music here. Um, but um A haughty eye, this is Proverbs 19, a haughty eye, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness that pours out lies, and a person who stirs up conflict. 

In the community. Now, again, on what level it got, it's not that God really hates eyes or tongues or hands. This is kind of an interesting kind of a litany of body parts. But the thing that each of these body parts have in common again, God created our bodies. Each of these body parts are good. We are created in the image of God. 

That's the very first thing that the Bible tells us about humans. Um, it was, it was tov meyod. It was very good that God made the humans. So humans are good. Body parts are good. The problem though, is when the body parts, um, harm, When these body parts associated with a human harm a human, another human that is created in the image of God, um, tongues that lie, hands that shed innocent, innocent blood. 

Okay, so in each of these cases, these body parts are harming people because God, God hates evil behavior, um, because, and maybe at the end, he hates a person who stirs up conflict in the community, there is a way that God's spirit, God manifests his nature in his And when a person brings conflict into that body, which again, somehow incarnates God, God and God's spirit, um, and they cause conflict, God, God is not indifferent to that, but he feels very strongly opposed to that. 

Um, and he is going to do things to, um. To stop that or to to judge that kind of behavior. And so I think, um, as we look at these texts, you know, Proverbs six, it makes sense. God hates because he loves. And of course, you know, maybe that sounds trite, but that is the reality. God hates in Proverbs six. So we can look at other places as well if you're interested, but God. 

Everywhere that God hates, it's, he's hating because he is loving people made in his image. That, so can we just, the last part, you know, about the, he hates the person who stirs up conflict. Can you say a little bit about, you know, a lot of times we hear people saying things like, you know, like hate the sin, but not the sinner. 

What is, what is your understanding of that and, and God's perspective on that? Yeah. And again, I don't want to, I don't want to pop people's bubbles. And if this is an expression that some of your listeners use and it helps them great, um, uh, um, I, I, you know, I, I like the essence of where this. I'm going to call it a cliche is going, um, uh, hate the sin, uh, love the sinner. 

We, we, yeah, yeah. Sorry. Um, how did I say? Yeah. Um, hate the sin, love the sinner or kind of variations of that. But, um, we need to be loving people full stop. 

But, um, my, I have a couple problems with it. I will call it a, I call it a cliche because I think, um, most of us have heard it so often that it loses its power. Um, one of the things I love about Jesus read through the gospels now again, we're teaching the sermon on the mount. My wife and I are teaching the sermon on the mount and our sunday school class at church. 

And, um, Man, Jesus is just, the Sermon on the Mount is full of stuff that just, it's hard to make sense of, you know, the hyperbole. Jesus does not speak in cliches. Jesus speaks in provocative language. This cliché loses its power, and I think that's, that's one of the big problems. Um, I, the other thing though is like, um, You know, hate the sin and love the sinner. 

Um, there's a couple problems with it just because it feels like it, it can be framed to say, well, there are some people out there that are particularly bad sinners, um, unlike some of the rest of us. And it's easy. And the church is full of, you know, they're Churches, at least in the U. S. here, that are kind of, we target people that we think are different from us. 

I mean, maybe it's people that feel different things about sex and sexuality than we do, and we target them and they say, well, they're, you know, those are the sins. People associated with those things are particularly bad, and I have a, so I have a problem with that. Again, biblically, you could almost argue that one could say, hate the sin and hate the sinner. 

Um, I was going to bring that up that you, that you say that, uh, that being more biblical might mean hating the sinners. Uh, and I want to talk about Psalm, uh, 1 31, where in Precatory Psalms is we have portions in the Bible where it's not just that God hates something, but that we are Seeming to we're supposed to hate in the way God hates. 

So can you talk about that a little bit? No, I think, I think that's great issue that I'm going to bring up. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, again, most of us, I don't know, I want to make assumptions. Some of the, your, your listeners are probably familiar with Psalm 139. Um, it's a, it's a great song, right? You've searched me, known me, um, you search out my past. 

Um, you, you formed me in my inward hearts. I'm fearfully and wonderfully made. Right. Yeah, these are all passages. Yeah, right. It's a couple of verses that everybody skips. Yes, we get to the end. Oh, that you would kill the wicked, that the bloodthirsty would depart from me. Do I not hate those who hate you all? 

Oh Lord. So you kind of go, wait a minute. I guess these people were not fearfully and wonderfully made. Not like, not like I am. What's up with that? Um, um, and you know, let's just say, um, again, we got to keep going though. Cause you have the, The, uh, do I not hate those who hate you, oh Lord, and do I not loathe those who rise up against you? 

I hate them with complete hatred. Yeah. I count them as my enemies. Yeah. That's strong language. It's, it's hyperbole. It's hyperbole. Like you say. It's troubling. It's deeply troubling. And let me just say, if there's anybody out there that is troubled by, um, uh, uh, uh, The sometimes by the God you encounter in the pages of scripture, or maybe even particularly the descriptions of hate associated with God. 

I resonate with that. Yeah. And just I don't I've thought about this a lot. Um, and I've talked about this in some of my other books as well. Please don't think that I'm going to brush aside questions about God's troubling character or even descriptions of God as hate as experienced the hatred of God. I do not want to brush these aside quickly. 

And if you struggle with these things, I encourage you to talk to someone, a pastor, a friend, a spouse, I don't know, a family member, um, uh, discuss this or talk about it with God. Um, but just We just need to sometimes in the church. We're not good at helping people struggle and ask really hard questions. 

Yeah, right, right. Read the Psalms. Okay, we're reading one right now. So, but let me come back and there's a couple things. So we're not gonna be able to solve. You know, in a in a 30 minute podcast, we're not gonna be able to solve the problem of God's hatred. Um, but I think we can we can hopefully come up with a couple points that will help people make a little bit more sense of it. 

But the point of this is hopefully this is a part of a much longer conversation you're having with people you trust that you're studying scripture with. Um, but there are a couple things that we can say, um, uh, about this psalm particularly, um, The first thing I'd just say is, um, uh, the person that is the person that is being hated here by the psalmist is someone who is already hating a righteous God. 

So the things the psalmist hates, the psalmist hates someone who is Opposing God because God is opposing them because they are trying to do evil things. Okay, so that that's kind of a starting point. And the second thing to say is after the psalmist praise this, they pray, um, Uh, see if there's any wicked way in me, which is how this psalm begins. 

Um, you've searched me and known me. So the psalmist knows that they're kind of venting a little bit here. And again, I don't, you know, I don't know about your churches, but I know a lot of churches don't, we don't provide places for people to really vent like the psalmist does. And I think, um, that's, uh. 

For people who have been victimized, you know, people talk about people who've been victimized by sexual abuse. You know, they're like, Hey, let's get them to a place of forgiveness right away. That's just not ultimately very healing. Um, so slow down. And, and again, the psalmist is dealing with hate and they're feeling it intensely, but what are they doing? 

They're praying and they're giving their hatred to God and God is righteous and God, they're going to let God deal with it. So this, this psalmist, unlike sometimes what we do in our churches, um, is all the psalmist is doing is praying. And I think that's a pretty good thing to do with the, with our intense emotion. 

I think it's helpful healing to talk about them, but, you know, even maybe particularly to be talking about them with God. Um, and I think that's a, that's a, an important step for most of us. Yeah. Yeah. We could have a whole nother podcast episode on why it's hard to express the full range of emotions to God, but that's not what we're talking about today, but I'm, I'm with you in that sense of like, I know I asked myself this question. 

I not only ask other people this question, but have you talked to God about that yet? That's great. You know, so often I have, so often I have to admit, no, actually I haven't, I haven't talked to God about it yet. I've talked to my husband, I've talked to my friend, but I haven't talked to God about it yet. 

And so I love what you're saying is that, you know, the whole range of emotions. Is, is part of our prayer life and, you know, we see that in the Psalms, but yeah, I think that, um, those, those two points, I just want to reiterate just so that we don't miss them. Is that the, the Psalmist is hating those people that are, you know, injuring God's children. 

So God's hatred as the creator. Uh, you know, we can call it Father God, like, you know, the parent of the whole family of humanity has responsibility for all God's children. And when one takes advantage, destroys, abuses, traumatizes another that stirs up the God of love is stirred up in hatred that one creature, one beloved would be, um, abused by another and that there is this kind of, Symmetry that that would be true of us to like there's we're not morally deformed when we're stirred up that way And so it is true. 

We should be troubled like we should wrestle, you know, we should be like, you know wrestling with God But then what I just want to underscore the other thing you said is is these people The psalmist is not now taking action against those wicked people is not taking action against those evildoers that Rather, the psalmist is the act. 

The only action taken is to offer in prayer both these emotions and trying to charge God, you know, rouse God to action to do something for it. And I think that's like kind of the main difference is what are we doing with our, our anger and hatred? Uh, and ultimately Jesus is our example for this. He had all sorts of opportunities to have righteous anger and hatred for how he was, um, You know, used and abused as well as all those that he, you know, is hoping to lead in the salvation. 

Right. But Jesus leads in a different way, ultimately. And so I just think that's so important. So you have a couple practical things like, uh, you actually challenged people to, uh, write in Precatory Psalms. Uh, so why don't we just finish with a couple of these kind of practices? What, you know, what should people be doing when they come across? 

You know, these things in scripture or ways maybe as teachers and pastors, we can actually get this stuff out there in front of our people a little bit more when I took a course on the Psalms from john golden gay. This was like, I don't know, almost, well, 25, 30 years ago, one of the assignments was to write a Psalm of lament. 

Um, and when I teach the Psalms, I do the same thing. Um, one of the things that I find with these assignments is most people, um, their language is so. restrained and it's, they overly qualified. It seems like, I think, you know, and they're, and I say, Read the Psalms of Lament. It's not restrained. It's, it's hyperbolic. 

It's, there's a venting, um, that it's, it's, it's like it's really raw and real, you know, it's kind of like, um, if you were to write a Psalm of Lament, like right when someone cut in front of you in front of the library on the highway and, and you were really angry and that's when you wrote it, that's, um, that's what I'm trying to capture. 

So, you know, there's a lot of things that we could do with our hate. I mean, obviously, um, we just pray. Thank you. You know, we, we, you know, I love how Sid expressed it just a second ago. Um, we talk to God about it, you know, have, uh, and we ask other people, have you, have you talked to God about that? I think that is beautiful. 

That's really, really good. Um, we teach imprecatory prayers. We teach on impregnatory Psalms. Um, um, there's a number of Psalms where this happens, but there's a lot of places, other places as well, um, imprecation. Again, fortunately, it's not a big thing in the Bible, but we do see it. I mean, even Jesus, um, you know, that poor, that poor fig tree, right? 

Um, which on some level symbolized I think, you know, and we could talk more about what, but symbolize the temple or what, you know, God's judgment later. But, um, um, we teach in Precatory, you know, Psalm 109, the end of Psalm 139, um, uh, stop ignoring, um, if, if we, if we truly believe that all scriptures inspired and I hope we do, um, then we're going to teach that, but then, you know, get involved in some kind of ministry, um, that, yeah. 

Is involved with justice because a lot of, I think a lot of the anger, a lot of the hatred of God that we see in scripture is targeting people who are oppressing others. Um, um, usually the people in power are holding down or oppressing the marginalized, um, and for, you know, most churches, um, have, um, ways to get involved, um, in some kind of a justice ministry, racism, sexual abuse, abortion, poverty, the environment, some kind of injustice. 

These are things that, um, instead of we need to pray, need to talk to God, talk to God about it. And we need to, um. You know, lament ourselves, right? These things, but it's good for us to, in some level, get involved in some kind of ministry that, um, put this into practice. Yeah. So last question, you mentioned in your book that you were, um, you were, uh, playing around with maybe, uh, introducing this to your, your evening dinner, uh, prayers. 

Like, you know, usually we pray over our food and are grateful, but you ever do that in front of the children in front of their, well, my, my kids are in their twenties. Okay. Yeah. So, um, you know, um, maybe not, maybe not. If you've got kids that are less than 10, although again, you know, you do, you do notice that, um, you know, this Psalm 137, it's another example of imprecatory prayer. 

These things don't end up in the children's Bibles, but I think someone that's over 10 or maybe over 12, you know, people that have kids that have gone into puberty, they need to be able to read the whole Bible. And, um, if. They're going to be asking questions about this. So, um, you know, when, when I pray and sometimes we do this at dinner when, when it just seems like something in our world is not right. 

And the leaders, um, the business leaders, the government leaders don't seem to be caring about injustice. We will pray prayers of imprecation. My sons are at the point in their lives where they're like, amen. You know, they're, they're, they're not, they're not going to be turned off for that. In fact, You know, they might be, they might take it up a notch. 

I'm kind of given where they're at. But, um, yeah, wisdom when it comes to these sorts of things. But, um, but for those of us, you know, parents of young Children, maybe wait parents of teens. Yeah, I think you can start talking about this stuff. Awesome. Well, thanks again so much. And, uh, the book again is the emotions of God making sense of the God who hates, weeps, and loves where can people, uh, find you online or keep track of, uh, some of the stuff that you're up to. 

I've got a, I've got a website, David T lamb dot com. Um, and I talk about that in my book, the emotions of God book and other books. Um, I'm not an active, I used to blog more regularly now. Um, but you know, when I preach, I post the video of the sermon there. People, people can email me, uh, D lamb at Missio dot edu. 

I welcome emails about the Bible. Um, you know, they can pick up the books anywhere that they, they buy books normally. Excellent. Well, thank you, uh, for being on for all of you who are listening and watching, please subscribe, uh, on YouTube. Uh, you can find the embodied faith podcast on Spotify, as well as Apple and Google and all those places. 

Please leave us a review, uh, as well as you can find us, uh, Sid and I on embodied faith dot life, uh, is one of the. Good places to find us. But thanks again so much. And, uh, yeah, thank you so much for not shying away from the hard questions and for asking them in such a way that you take us along with you in wrestling with the answer is appreciate your work. 

Thank you. I appreciate your questions and I appreciate your interest. And, um, yeah, let's hope that helps people make sense of God and God's emotions. This has been my pleasure. . 

​